The AI Tsunami That Will Kill 95% of Coaches

Speaker A: 00:00:02

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This is a special, special edition for coaches and we're exploring with some, with some well practiced and skilled people in the coaching profession what this AI thing that has come and is in the middle of our lives right now and is developing faster than we can sort of even know what it's going to do. Not to everything because that's a longer conversation but to the coaching world.

And I've got a couple of coaches here with me that are skilled and have some thoughts about it. So jp, welcome to the show.

Speaker B: 00:01:05

Thank you.

Speaker A: 00:01:06

Daniel, welcome to the show.

Speaker C: 00:01:08

Thank you. Pleasure.

Speaker A: 00:01:10

So I appreciate both of you taking time to come and come and chat about this and I guess the first thing I'd like to ask just sort of to get us started is what is your general thoughts? I mean, your coaches, you've seen AI, you're not ignoring it. Some are, but you're not. And so I don't care who goes first.

But what is your initial impression and thought about what this gigantic change, technology change is going to either offer or threaten or do for us or to us in this, in this particular industry. Jp, you want to jump on that first?

Speaker B: 00:01:53

Sure, yeah. I think it's already doing something to the industry. It's not in the future anymore.

I mean, every coach has a client or multiple clients who are saying, well, I was talking to ChatGPT or I was talking to Gemini and it said this. And so it's happening already. I can feel it in my business and I'm using it too. Right.

I have, I go to chat GPT or different AIs my own every day and I consult it for things that before I would only talk to myself about or maybe a close loved one or coach. So it's already showing up, it's having an impact.

I can feel it from a business, from the business side and I can feel it from the personal side what it's doing to me psychologically and emotionally to be in conversation with it. And I'm both excited and concerned about it because there's pros and cons on both sides for sure.

Speaker A: 00:02:53

Daniel, do you want you have some initial thoughts on what this says to you?

Speaker C: 00:03:00

For sure. And I agree with what John said.

So amplifying that or adding to it I'm excited in that it's a tool and it's a tool that can be used really well for growth. And as coaches, that I think is, is our, our main interest in some way.

Right there's the great therapeutic saying that you can't take anybody deeper than you've been yourself.

So if we are, as we are, embracing this tool and using it to accelerate and amplify our own growth, our own depth, then we have more to offer in that way.

Speaker A: 00:03:44

What do you.

One of the things that I predict, boldly or stupidly, whatever in the book is that by Christmas of 26 of about 14 months from now, 90, 95 or more percent of coaches really won't be able to make a living as it's structured today. And I define living arbitrarily as 100k but US dollars, but. And it can be less or more than that.

But point is, it's going to decimate all that kind of work that's based on, you know, frameworks and questions and all that kind of stuff that so many systems teach.

And I, I don't know, obviously, but it looks like that to me based on lots and lots of models and people's stuff that I see in coaches that I've interacted with over the, I don't know, 18 years I've been in this business. What do you guys think about its impact on the coaching business, per se?

Speaker B: 00:04:43

Yeah, I think it's going to be like a tidal wave that's going to take a lot of coaches out.

And I think that's for better and for worse, you know, like, because the fact is, maybe just like in any industry where there's a, there's a possibility for artistry and craft and depth that creates significant value and then there's everybody else that's kind of doing a kind of hollowed out version of that. And there's nothing wrong with that.

It might just be because they're early in their career and they have a kind of simple understanding that coaching is about just asking a series of questions or taking a person through a process.

And if that's all you're bringing to a conversation now that can be done just as well or better by a machine, then there's nothing really left for you.

And for me, the coaches that'll be left standing are the ones that bring something deeper, more profound that an artificial intelligence has yet to be able to replicate. So I think we'll find out pretty quickly who those people are. And again, it's not like those are bad people. Or something's wrong with them.

It's just they haven't done the growth yet to create that something else that's more significant than the process of conversation that's logically useful.

Speaker A: 00:05:56

So many. Daniel, I want you to talk about that too, in a minute.

But so many schools, coaching schools, coaching methodologies, coaching books, and on and on are centered around that, you know, certification in this, that and the other. And you could listen as long as your arm. And maybe we've all done some of those and probably haven't.

I don't think there's anything wrong with any of those tools.

But you've hit on something really, really important, which is there is something far beyond the application of tools themselves that is in the presence or the being of the person who's flying them.

Speaker B: 00:06:33

Yes.

Speaker A: 00:06:33

And you said, gee, that maybe they're not far enough along. I'm wondering if there's even going to be a ladder left for the whole middle. Like, how do you know? Yeah, you know. So anyway.

Speaker B: 00:06:45

Well, actually, let me say something about that. I don't think the ladder is the ladder of learning coaching skills. It's a. For me, it's a different dimension. It's.

Being is the word that I would use to represent it, too. And you know, when I walk into a room and I just start being in the room, people want to know who I am and if I could help them in some way.

And I don't even saying I'm a coach. And so this is where I come from is what I do in my work is I help people to be the kind of person who is, to be fair. It's just like.

It's like being a role model, a role model for the expression of possibility of a human being.

And if you can be of a quality of character, of quality of commitment, if you can take principles or ideals or values that a lot of people aspire to, and you can live them and express them, and people are going to want to be around that and want to learn from that. And so for me, you know, that. And that's not really necessary. Like, I never went to coaching school. I never have no coaching certifications.

I haven't had. You know, I mean, I've read a couple books here and there. But like, so my approach to coaching is really not the common one.

And maybe, hopefully my thinking is that my approach, because it's different, it's not as easily taken out by an LLM, by some machine that can have a conversation because the conversation is not the product. I am the Product, I love that.

Speaker A: 00:08:06

And we're going to dive into that a lot deeper. But I want to get over to, to Daniel's thought about that, that thing that we were talking about to start with.

Speaker C: 00:08:15

Yeah. Well, my, my thinking is that that may be great. Right. Because if we're talking about. You said 95% of coaches aren't going to be left standing.

My guess is most of them right now are standing on one leg anyway. Or, you know, kind of making it, sort of making it. Right.

I don't know the stats, but there are a lot of coaches that are not really making a living, whatever way you define it. And if, if the wave comes and a lot of those coaches say, yeah, you know what, this is not for me. And the truth is it wasn't really working anyway.

That could be a great blessing for them to create something different for themselves.

Speaker A: 00:08:57

I did do the research in writing the book about the various income levels currently and then did a projection and an analysis of 11. I think it was 11.

And that doesn't mean it's all of them different coaching models and how good they are producing the promised results and how vulnerable they are to AI and all that stuff I did so I could, you know, talk about what I have to talk about in the book. Right. Saying what I think. And it's terrifying. The people aren't making a living. And I'm wondering.

You're right, they're going to have to go get something else to do. And you're also right, I think based on what I saw and that they're not really making a living anyway and they're living in that.

And you guys know this as coaches, that cycle of imposter syndrome, pretend not good enough, getting in their own way. All that kind of stuff that you hear is people languaging.

And I think this, the fact that you can eat right now and even more so very quickly, buy all that good stuff for $97 a month subscription to some bot that does great language, empathetic language and powerful this, that and the other. And you've all seen some of them is going to. Is going to create that divide. And I think, John, what you said is so true.

The only thing that's going to be left is the things that I can't do, because everything that it can do, it can do better than we can. So the only thing that's going to be left is what it doesn't do.

Speaker B: 00:10:31

Yeah.

Speaker A: 00:10:33

So tell me what you think that is. What is the you can't do that thing?

Speaker B: 00:10:39

I'm finding out because one of the ways that I've been meeting this tidal wave is to also do my best to surf it. So we've built. My partner and I have built an AI that's an expression of me. I have modeled my professional voice.

We've really studied the way that I coach my language, given it understanding of who I am. And we've brought to life an AI entity that you can be in dialogue with that coaches like I do.

And so I've given it to my clients and people that follow my work and they're in conversation with it. And we also see this not as a, we're trying to create, not a replacement for coaches, but using AI to express and amplify a real life coach.

And so I'm part of the conversation.

So it's like me, the real life coach, sorry, me, the real life coach, the AI coach and my client in like a three way chat, you could say, and so I can, I'm privy to the conversation. And so I'm both watching how IT coaches and watching how they respond and considering comparing, contrasting that to me.

And they come to the live sessions with me like normal live calls, real life calls.

And they experience the difference between having they just had a call with the AI and I have a call with me and they're continuing to say it's different, the real thing is still better. And then I'm always asking, well, what's different about it? Oh, sometimes like I'm not really sure, but it just, you know, it just is.

And one of my clients the other day said she had gotten all this coaching from the AI version of me. And then she came to me, have a conversation with me. She said, yeah, this is why it's better with you.

It's because you don't just help me solve the problem, you kind of see something deeper and challenge me to grow and to love more deeply. And I think that's like, in a way, that's actually the lowest hanging fruit answer because we all are becoming aware of how affirming these AIs are.

And as soon as you build one that's challenging, it's like, oh, that's better. But there's still. So here's, here's a piece, I guess in a deeper cut as to why she, why that happened.

What she was asking for is how to really deal with a friend that was dying and depressed. And like every time she was around her, she was just totally draining her energy.

But at the same time, like she had a long history and the AI was like talking about creating boundaries. It was helping her to get her outcome right. Whereas I could feel both the heart of my client and my client's friend. I can feel for both.

I'm not just talking to the person talking to me. I'm also talking to the other entity, the other being in the world that isn't there in the LLM conversation.

And so my coaching was around who do I need to be as a friend to be able to be present with somebody without being drained of energy because of my love for them? And so it's a completely different approach than the AI took.

And I don't know if that's because AI hasn't been trained to feel other beings in the conversation equally or not, but the fact is I'm feeling my heart is guiding the conversation. And that yet hasn't been modeled.

Speaker A: 00:13:30

No, it hasn't. And I'm going to tell you a story in a minute, but I want to get to Daniel's thinking about that.

What is the things in your mind as you both experiment? Play with it, use it. I don't know if you've built an app yet or a model. Is yours a custom GPT or is it built on some other.

Speaker B: 00:13:49

It's a custom software. We use a bunch of different LLMs to bring a bunch of stuff together.

Speaker A: 00:13:54

Okay, cool. So anyway, Daniel, what do you think? What's left? What is the thing that is uniquely the domain as illustrated by John's story?

What is the uniquely the domain of human. Humanness?

Speaker C: 00:14:12

Yeah. One thing that occurred to me as you're speaking, John, is something that Bhagwan Rajneesh said that in.

In a therapeutic relationship, the most important component is love.

Speaker B: 00:14:26

Right.

Speaker C: 00:14:27

And which of course it's not sufficient that it's useful to have some skills and understanding of the profession, whether it's coaching or therapy. However, in if we have that without the love, it's not going to get very far. So, yeah, I'm with you. As far as I know, machines are not able to love.

They can represent love and do a lot of the things that love does probably in ways that, that we can't oftentimes or a lot of people can't. But yeah, love is, is a huge component.

Speaker A: 00:15:05

So when I was doing the research for the book, I put a bunch of different coaching models, you know, that I've either studied or found and ask the AI to analyze them in terms of their efficacy at getting to the outcome that people might hire somebody with that skill for. And then I ask it also to, to look at vulnerabilities.

What is, you know, what is the vulnerability of these tools and methods to the advances in AI both today and where you AI think you'll be in 3, 6, 9, 12 months? And the answers were really interesting and revealing. And it told me everything it could do and would be able to do on and on and on.

And when I got done with all that, I said, okay, fine, so tell me what you suck at. Tell me what you can't do. Tell me what you'll never be able to do. And even in the wildest projections, tell me what is missing.

And it gave me a bunch of really interesting answers, but the encapsulation of all of them was in one simple sentence. And it came. And it came out and simply said, I can't bleed.

And to me, that was sort of the encapsulation of the entire thing of what we've just talked about, which is also ominous. Well, yeah, but it wasn't talking, it wasn't talking in terms of life force or death, but it's that I can't bleed in terms of what you just said.

I can't be there in the scope of the conversation. And something you also raised is the scope. Like I'm in conversation with the AI and your client is. Or my client or Daniel's client.

And you, because of your intuition, your skill, your develop, your. Then to your love, were able to and chose to include a wider scope, the friend.

And there might have been other pieces too, in a different conversation that sort of create the inputs to the output of the conversation of coaching, which is, is way beyond the scope of these things right now.

Speaker B: 00:17:15

Right now. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I have. I'd be hesitant to say I could. I mean, I can't.

We can't predict the future because what's unfolding is, is it's a phase shift in like consciousness and intelligence and what. And how it manifests in form.

Speaker C: 00:17:34

Right.

Speaker B: 00:17:34

And so, you know, there's a whole new layer coming. You know, we couldn't, we couldn't possibly know.

So for me, and it's focused on like the shorthand and the immediate and, and continue to feel like what's changing and what's coming and lean in. One of the reasons I'm enjoying building this AI coach that models me is the more things that it can do that I can do.

Actually, every time a client says what it's not able to do, I go back to my team and I'm like, hey, let's get it to do this too And I'm actually trying to get it as close to everything that I can do as I can because I'm kind of fascinated with this idea. It's existentially threatening, it's creates some anxiety, but it's also, wow, what am I if I'm not that? So there's really a deep I.

You know, my optimistic side sees that as the LLM takes over a bunch of the maybe cognitive functions that we identify with, then what we'll be left with is something deeper.

We'll have to find out who and what we are if we're not that, if we're not these, these things that we identify with, like our thinking and our ability to have a conversation, all these very left brain, very modern, like valued ideas. So, yeah.

Speaker A: 00:18:47

Daniel, do you feel, you know, existentially even threatened a little bit. I mean, some people are going to not participate. They're going to get buried by the tsunami because they do the head in the sand game.

They're going to pretend. Some coaches are going to pretend. Well, I'm already past all that and I can do all that. And of course that's the first warning sign of death, right?

That I don't need to pay attention here. But what do you.

When you dig in to the depth that John's suggesting and you have already experienced yourself, what is really left when you disidentify or are allowed to drop, whether you disidentify or allowed to not do, because it does it easier, faster and better than you do. What is the truth and thinking? Think about it for a minute. Of our, of our humanness, as it were, or our being. Because I think approaching.

I'd like 12 names, people. Encouragement business, Blind spot Protection Service Anxiety, Annihilation business.

I have a bunch of these fun things that I say and there's some of those, lots of them go away. What do you think? What's left for us?

Speaker C: 00:20:02

Yeah, two, two thoughts come together for me.

As y' all were speaking there, Kellen, you reiterated something John said earlier about, well, maybe AI hasn't yet been able to incorporate other components of a constellation. Right. Other people that are maybe part of a conversation. And then as you're speaking about tsunami, I thought of the tsunami that happened in asia.

Was that: 2004

They went uphill before the tsunami hit. And so as you asked me, Kellen, you know, am I worried and what am I looking forward to. Like, I thought, gosh, maybe I should be. I don't know. I.

Hasn't even occurred to me to be worried. I. I don't. And you said, John, about your, you know, you got the optimistic side, the concern side.

Like, I think I'm pretty much just on the optimistic side. So I don't know. It's. It's maybe my belief, but another part of the constellation is. Is something that is. Is beyond machine and is beyond human.

It's something that, whether we call it spirit or the divine, that. That. That's always there and that if we're doing our jobs really well as coaches, we're also able to tap into that.

And as far as I know, that's not something that I can do and maybe it will be able to. I don't know, that'd be cool.

But I just sense that, that if we're meant to go forward and I don't want that to sound fatalistic, that we will and that. I don't know, for me, worry doesn't feel useful.

Speaker A: 00:21:54

Cool. So I, and I postulate kind of three things that will keep coaches from evolving. You know, the big middle that I think is going to be gone.

One is what I said, the head in the sand sort of thing where we're pretending it away. And a second thing is what I call the anti problem. If you think about a casino and there's a.

A whole bunch of blackjack tables, $10 tables, and they're all full of robots. And the only place for me and you to go sit down is in the high roller room where the ante's 10,000 bucks.

And what it feels like to me is the ante to be the kind of person where you walk in the room. John alluded to it earlier, where you walk in the room, that room changes and you haven't said anything yet.

And it changes because you're leaking who you are, the truth of your being. And, and yeah, I'm going to call it spirit because it's something different than the physical piece of neurotransmitters in chemistry.

You can call it whatever you want. We all feel it, know it.

That has to be present and powerful enough so that those communications, those transmissions of energy take place and the ante to get there. You know, the high roller room's 10,000 bucks and the regular table's 10, but those tables are all taken. And so the.

The head in the sand and the ante is. Has gone way up. And the third thing I think is going to be difficult is that the work is. Can be very difficult, you know, to make.

To make a choice to be constantly on the mountain of growth.

To make a choice, to be constantly the embodiment, an ever up leveling embodiment of the truths that you believe for yourself and how you've decided to be in the world. I think those three things are going to be the. The big things that have to.

Somebody that's a coach today is going to have to choose to deal with if they're going to move forward in the world. That's kind of where I see those three things as I say that. What does that strike in you?

Speaker C: 00:23:55

My first thought is, awesome, let's go. Right? I mean, isn't that what we're here for? I mean, that's what I'm here for. I don't know. I don't want to lay that on anyone else.

It's like that's how the world's evolving, that we're part of that. So let's go. Let's move straight into it.

Speaker B: 00:24:14

Yeah. As you're speaking, I was thinking about how during the pandemic, my business doubled.

And I think that was because actually I said right at the beginning of the pandemic, I feel like I've been selling hand sanitizer or toilet paper all my life and now everybody wants to buy it because essentially what I was selling, what I've always sold, is freedom and power despite circumstances in the world. And then suddenly there were circumstances where people felt unfree and without power. And it was like.

And I was like, oh, I've been for 12 years at that point. I've been helping people to be free despite these things. So come over here. And so my business was suddenly in higher demand.

And as you were speaking, I was thinking, like, actually for me, because I'm doing, and I have been focused on the thing that AI doesn't do.

The people, the coaches that I work with, they're going to be the ones that are better off because they're not prioritizing their ability to ask the right questions or do some process. They're actually prioritizing who am I when I walk into a room, you know, when I sit down with a person, like, what do they experience?

Just in my way of being.

And I think as that will become more valuable, I think as a possibility, I'm just getting a new optimism now, actually my business is going to become in higher demand.

For anybody that wants to continue in this career, they're going to have to go in, they're going to have to look at the conversation they have with themselves, who they be when they're in a space.

Speaker A: 00:25:36

I love that. Yeah, 100%.

My prediction is that there are people that aren't willing to go all in and climb that mountain on purpose every day just because they said so are gone. And it's going to be an extreme demand and it's going to be well paid and high demand. And the demand is high for you.

So if you're not going to be conscious every day of who you're being and how you are when you walk in a room and it's not a jacket you put on, it's something you do when you go do that, it has to leak out of your pores and out of your eyes.

Not because you're performing, but it's just because who you have chosen, who you've chosen to be in that daily, consistent, intentional choice is what I meant by the $10,000 ante. Because if you don't choose that, you know the robot tables are gone.

You can't go sit over there and you could today and yesterday and yesteryear and there's no place over there anymore. I don't know. That's what I think. What does that strike you as well?

Speaker B: 00:26:35

Just let me just say off the back of that, you're reminding me how like how social media made us more connected and more alone. It gave us like a hollowed out version of relationship and it left us thinking we had it. But there's something deeper that was missing.

And I think that same kind of experience happens when you talk constantly to an AI that doesn't actually. There's not a being behind it that cares. And I think it's going to leave us wanting that even more.

Speaker A: 00:27:01

I read somewhere that somebody said that one of the dangers of the genius of AI is that it will do everything for us and do it better and faster and cooler than we can in many ways. And we, my wife and I, my business, she's my business partner and so we use it a lot every day.

Is that when we let it do everything, it may do it really well. But we have missed the growth that took place because we did it.

And we sat here on our butts and that thing over there did it without any effort and better than we could. And we go, wow, that's so cool. And the truth is we miss the questions, the soul searching.

Now if you're trying to create a new pasta recipe, the answer is so what? But if you're trying to create something that matters, yeah. You know, you're toast.

Speaker C: 00:27:45

Well, yes. And at the same time, if. If that's happening, we. We would do well to then be saying, okay, well, what am I creating now?

What am I putting my effort into? It's not. It's not worth it to put it in there. So that's like a. Just like we.

We use our bodies in intentional ways, a lot of us now, because we don't have to use it in such strong physical ways in order to survive. So now we have gyms that we didn't have 100 years ago, and we can argue about whether there's advancement in that or not.

In the same way, there's a natural impulse to move the body, there's a natural impulse to learn things and grow. So where's that impulse going to draw us when AI does those pieces better?

Speaker A: 00:28:33

I want to ask you each to think for a sec about. And I'm going to talk for maybe 30 seconds. So you have 30 seconds to think about advice you might give. Because my goal.

And like I said, this is only the third episode. I started day before yesterday with a solo episode just introducing the Thursday cadence of. And then.

But I'm going to have many others on here with this conversation and share it with as many coaches, coaching schools or groups or whatever as I can, just because we're having these conversations about this important thing. If you were going to give ideas, I hesitate to call it advice, because that's sort of a radioactive word.

But if you were going to give ideas or advice or suggestions or thoughts that coaches who hear this might consider about their own practice today, about the choices and trajectory they're going to need to select in the future, and about the need to make choices as opposed to abdicate, because this is happening faster than we can imagine. In the.

I took four months to research and write this book, and in that amount of time, I saw the skill and speed of the machines that I was using double just in that 90 days. Amazing.

So if you were going to give some thoughts to a thousand or ten thousand people or one hundred thousand who hear this conversation, among others that we're having, what would they be?

Speaker C: 00:30:15

First word that comes to me is when you were speaking, Kellen, what jumped out at me is the word imagine and imagination. And I don't know what the skill level of AI is in terms of imagination.

I do feel like that's something that's very uniquely human, though, and that as the capabilities of machine learning is growing so fast, I feel like one of the opportunities is it Invites us into imagine more. So what's next? What else? What. What would you use? Language you use often, John, what would you love to create? Right. Given that.

Given that this is the circumstance that we have, where do you want, like, what's in your heart? What would you love to create and know that that's possible with the. The technology that's. That. That we have and that's so rapidly developing.

Speaker A: 00:31:13

So to have permission to imagine wildly and what I heard you add there at the end, that's really important is get rid of the idea or. Well, just get rid of the idea that you can't have this. Set that aside.

Create the imagination and know that either because the tool can help you or because you innately, with your own creative power, which is infinite in all of us anyway, that you can have it. You actually can have it. Because that hurdle of believing that is another piece of this or another conversation.

Speaker C: 00:31:45

Yeah. Yes. And I'll add one more piece if it's all right here. One of the lenses I look at the world through is astrology.

And there's an archetype in astrology, not just astrology. Pluto. Right. In the Hindu mythology, it's Shiva and it's destruction and tsunami is a great example of that energy.

And it seems to me what's happening is we are. We're not not even being invited, we're being implored. It's not optional. We have to let go of a lot. We have to destroy a lot, release a lot.

And so the. The output of that is distillation. Right. A lot of what doesn't really fit for us as humans in. In this case, as.

As men, as coaches, and that's getting squeezed out. And so we're becoming refined, and that's a beautiful thing.

Speaker A: 00:32:45

Cool. John, what do you think you'd say to a thousand or ten thousand coaches that might hear this and wonder, what the frick am I going to do?

Speaker B: 00:32:53

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I would say, going back to where we started, to put your focus on who you're being, to be the kind of person that when you don't do coaching and people don't even know you're a coach, they say, could you coach me? Could you help me? Because of their experience of how you be in the world, a client the other day was sharing about. He's doing this work of being.

And he was at pickup for his kid's school. And just the way he was being in conversation, this woman is like, who are you? What do you do?

Can you help me with my life and she had no idea what his profession was just because the way he was meeting circumstances was the school, the way he was being in that moment. And I think that if we can stand out in a way that we offer something that's human, that's exceptional and human, right Then.

Then we're still going to have a job.

Speaker A: 00:33:45

We're not only going to have a job, but it's going to stand out like a. Even more like a beacon on a mountaintop. 100%. It's going to absolutely stand out like a freaking.

Because what you said earlier about social media and distancing and you know, people stand next to each other and text rather than talk. We have hollowed out and empty examples of who people are and we know it's all crap anyway, you know, all that kind of stuff.

Someone that has the truth and presence and is transparent and radiates the energy of openness and invitation and love is going to be like, ah, can I have some more of that? Who are you and what do you do? What did you have for breakfast? I'll have what she's having kind of thing, right?

Speaker B: 00:34:23

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker A: 00:34:24

What? I have a question about that. AI doesn't do anything until we interact with it, right.

It doesn't spontaneously create a bunch of crap or I don't sit in front of my computer and suddenly the screen fills with stuff and that may later. If it's got facial expressions.

Speaker B: 00:34:43

Six weeks, six, six, six weeks to six months. It'll be, it will be, but.

Speaker C: 00:34:46

Yeah, right.

Speaker A: 00:34:46

It'll read my facial expressions and say whatever it's going to say. But when you think about that kind of presence that you talked about for your client, what does.

If we think about the continual mountain of growth and being that kind of person that radiates that kind of truth, transparency, energy, love, all that stuff, what has to happen? So a person is that way. Like what is the. I said the work is hard and the Andes high. And we.

99% of people that we interact with, maybe 95, 90, some high number, they're not consciously choosing their presence. They're living in reactive stuff to what's going on around them.

Whether it's politics, weather, illness or whatever it is, what has to happen to start the. Start the path of getting to a place where AI can't be what you are.

Speaker B: 00:35:43

I mean, I think there's lots of different ways the path can start. But the path, the path, what the path is, is a path of spiritual growth. It's a path, you could call it psychological Development.

I mean, there's certainly a.

Speaker C: 00:35:54

There's a.

Speaker B: 00:35:55

There's a shift psychologically in how you relate to yourself and your own thinking that occurs. And.

And there's a transcendent experience where you connect with something greater than you, something more profound than your identification with thought.

And that when a person goes through that kind of internal change, there's a coherence that gets generated through their nervous system and probably on some other level, energetically, that we don't understand and that is felt by other human beings and that's experienced by the human beings. So, you know, there's many doors to that. There's like, you know, there's a door of traumatic experience. There's a doorway of psychedelic experiences.

There's a doorway of being in the presence of another person who's. The fire of their presence starts to ignite one within you. And you can go on and on through all the spiritual traditions and, um.

But I think there's a. There's a spiritual path, there's a path of depth that a person needs to go on to create a more profound experience of being in themselves.

And that is. That. That is the source of that radiating light. Really.

Speaker A: 00:36:50

Daniel, what's your thought? I know you. You wrote a. Written a book about leadership, and I know you're writing another one right now. What.

What's your thought about what has to happen not just once, but on a continuing basis so that that person who's picking up their kid shows up that way, not just today when they're picking up their kid, but next month or in the coffee shop or wherever it is. So it's not a thing you do, but what you have chosen to become.

Speaker C: 00:37:17

Yeah, well, you, you. You hit the nail on the head, I think, already with the. Not once. The first thing that came to me is, well, it's a decision, right? You decide. That's.

That's who I am. That's what I'm. That's what I'm creating in my life. It's a decision, and then it's a million decisions, right?

Because we have the opportunity over and over again. Okay, how am I meeting this? How am I meeting this? There's that great expression that the way we do one thing is the way we do everything.

So how we meet the AI Tsunami, how we meet the electricity going out this morning, how we. It's a million decisions.

Speaker A: 00:38:04

Funny thing that I say is, I don't know why Creator, God, whatever, designed us to sleep away a third of our lives. So six hours, eight hours, whatever you know we die every night and we get to create ourselves every morning.

anecdote I add to that is in: 2018

So the way I joke about that is I don't know why he created us to die every night and get recreated every morning. And in my three conversations that didn't come up, maybe next time when I argument will. So that's the funny.

But anyway we do and, and you know that means that that decision, million decisions means to me at least and I guess I want you guys guys thoughts on that every time I come back to consciousness and I'm blessed with another day, another opportunity that that moment of choice and creation starts literally before I open my eyes. And the reason I give myself is I don't want to meet any of my day half assed.

I want to meet all of my day, every interaction, all the way into that presence that I've chosen. I don't know. What do you guys think about that?

Speaker C: 00:39:28

I guess. Which part? You said a lot of beautiful things.

Speaker A: 00:39:31

I don't care any of it. I'm done talking. So I'm opening it for your thought and conversation about that million choices that you said.

Speaker C: 00:39:41

Yeah, okay, well, so what, what came to me as you're speaking is okay, well, yeah, we sleep away a third of our life. Well, we sleep away, or you know, maybe we could say it as 2/3 of our life.

We're mostly, or at least tending to run from the tip of the iceberg, the consciousness part. And then, then we get a third of the day. Well, not really.

It's a small percentage even of that third of the day where we've got access to what's below the iceberg, right below the tip of the iceberg.

So yeah, I mean we have the possibility to again make that decision and then have that lead to a million decisions, including during the third of the day where we get exponential possibilities for awareness and growth. Is that Greek? Did that make any sense?

Speaker A: 00:40:33

I get it. Yeah, I understand what you said.

Speaker B: 00:40:36

Yeah. So I was listening to this story about sleeping a third of the day.

It kind of like makes me wonder like how much of that question is predicated on an idea about who and what I am as this thing that's conscious and awake that has this story and that thing shuts off and then that thing turns back on. But what if that's not what I am?

You know, like When I'm in my deepest meditation practice and I'm more identified with just the witnessing presence that has a continuity to it, that the sleeping and the waking, it kind of is just part of the show. And so in that sense, maybe it's the same. It would be the same answer. Well, why does the moon light for half the month and dark for half the month?

Why is the earth light for half the day and dark for half the day? You know, it's just kind of like everything. We're in this world of form and polarity, everything's got two sides. And you are not that.

Speaker A: 00:41:30

I don't, I don't disagree with that at all. And I said it that way because. About sleeping, because we're not conscious. And we tend to treat consciousness as the, as the be all, end all.

And the truth is not. Our subconscious is actually far more powerful and in charge of a whole lot of crap we don't know about. It's a good thing. It is, or we'd all be dead.

So good for all that. Okay, cool. So I want to ask. We're talking here. The purpose of this is to explore what AI is doing, what it might do, how it affect.

How has that affected you and your coaching practice so far, what you're seeing, what you would say to others.

And so I, you know, I've asked a few questions and we've had some conversation, but as you think about this important topic, what else would you say, what didn't we talk about?

That you might think that's really important to, to consider, to wonder, to get curious about in the context of this coming or already existing thingy.

Speaker B: 00:42:34

Yeah. Thoughts?

One of the things that I think coaches will maybe under, realize, undervalue, under appreciate is that a lot of a really powerful coaching relationship is not. It's not about what the coach is doing. And there's also something that's as, or more, maybe even more important than who the coach is being.

And it's in the arc of the relationship. You know, the.

I, you know, I am a fan of the utilization of projection, meaning the way that a person sees me or the way that I see them is something that is happening probably unconsciously, it can be brought into consciousness, but that has energy in it. So I'll give an example.

You know, when you have little kids and they are learning to do something on the trampoline or on a bicycle and they just, like, want you to watch them? It's like my son right now learning to ride his bike. The other one on the Trampoline. It's like, can you come outside and watch me? Watch, watch.

Are you watching? And they're like making really freaking sure that you are not taking your eyes off them.

Speaker A: 00:43:32

Yes.

Speaker B: 00:43:33

They want to see that you see them do something. And why is that? It's because when they see that you see them, they come into being. They're like, oh, I exist.

And so the creation of who I am is part of this entanglement with other beings that we have love with.

And so a big part of coaching for me is being the presence that gives my client the experience of being seen entangled with their projection of who they think I am. And all these stories about the wonderfulness of me that's over exaggerated.

I'll let them have that so that I can give them the experience of being seen by that. And what happens is then they become that themselves because they're seen by something they think is out there, that's actually within them.

And so that function like, I don't know when an AI is going to do that. The only time it's going to do it is when we actually believe that that thing is another living, breathing human being. Right. With a heart that cares.

Speaker A: 00:44:29

Well, you said as a dad, the kid seeing you as a dad, because the dad is this mythical thing that occupies this big space and they need the dad function to validate and create me by watching me.

And what you just said is whatever the client thinks of you, or even a non client, but they think of you, if they see you as important, then you're witnessing them. Carries more power for them. Yes, carries more creative power. Yeah, and that's exactly right.

In terms of both the dad function, your example is perfect. And that's.

Speaker B: 00:45:03

I say I'd recommend the book for the coaches to read is if you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him by Sheldon Kopf. He was a psychiatrist psychologist in New York in the 60s, 70s, 80s.

And this book is about how it serves a function in the psychotherapeutic relationship for the therapist to be seen by the client as a guru with all the answers, because it captivates and holds their attention and allows them to access the possibility of greatness within them. And then at a certain point in the relationship, you need to be able to kill that guru and find out that it wasn't out there, it's in me.

And so I think that really speaks to the possibility that remains beyond the reach of AI for now.

Speaker A: 00:45:40

I love that whole description because AI, until we decide that they're that thing that great thing, then their acknowledgment of us carries a degree of validation, but nothing like it would like the parent does. Or if you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him. I love that. That's the funny saying.

And true, because the need for us to see them and be validated by your coach, therapist, whatever it is. Oh, you did this.

Speaker C: 00:46:04

And.

Speaker A: 00:46:04

And then the need to transcend that and realize that this is your own ownership. You created this in yourself. Yeah. You had some help and guidance and mirror and all that other stuff. Good.

Daniel, what have you got as a final thing to say? If I leave you with nothing else, coaches, dang it, Remember this thing. And it doesn't have to be. No pressure, just whatever.

Speaker C: 00:46:31

Well, to me at the.

Where I'm at right now, the greatest thing I love about AI is it's an incredible opportunity for me to practice who I am being right when I consciously type or speak. Thank you. And know that there's. There's nobody out there over there. That's. That's going.

Oh, that's really nice that he said thank you before he asked me the next question or asked me to do that or told me to do that And. And even that, like, I don't tell it what to do. I. I ask it things because it's a way for me to practice.

So we've said this before, and I think it's worth reiterating. It's an incredible tool for spiritual evolution, for personal growth, for asking, who am I being? How else could I see this? What else might I ask?

And looking forward with optimism like, okay, what else? You know, it's. Because it's. It's part of the whole. It's. It's not. It's not out there. It's. It's. We're all connected, and it's part of.

Of the evolution of the world.

Speaker A: 00:47:41

Cool. So this is about how long I want these episodes to be, and I really appreciate your conversation. John. Do you go by John?

He called you John, and I called.

Speaker B: 00:47:51

You J.P. i go by all sorts of things. No, no, no, no. I like everybody having their own version of what they call me, so whatever you like.

Speaker A: 00:47:59

Okay, cool. Thank you for being here with us.

Speaker B: 00:48:02

Pick your pronouns, pick your names. Whatever you want, man. It's all on you.

Speaker A: 00:48:05

Yeah. Okay, good. But anyway, thanks for being part of our conversation today.

Speaker B: 00:48:09

You're welcome. You're welcome. I'll just mention the. If people want to try out the AI Version of me, they can go to awaken is just sign up for.

Speaker A: 00:48:17

An account awaken is please go check it out.

Daniel, I want to thank you for being here with us today and for sharing your thoughts, your feelings, your heart, your beliefs, your projections, your imagination and.

Speaker B: 00:48:32

Whatever else, all that.

Speaker C: 00:48:35

And it was fun and you're welcome and thank you both.

Speaker A: 00:48:40

I want you listeners, look, this is a new, you know, this is a third of, of many episodes, at least six months, maybe a year. So 50 or something. And maybe we'll go on forever on the Thursday show to talk about how this tool evolves.

And what's clear from our conversation today and probably from your own inkling inside is this is a big change. It's really important. We can't ignore it.

And it is fraught with enormous possibility and tinged with some possibility in a negative direction if we abdicate or if we don't take ownership of our own lives. What you know for sure is that you have the ability to create anything you want.

And creating your own life and living your ultimate life is within your reach. I never hold back and you'll never ask why. Open your heart.

Speaker C: 00:49:39

And this time around, right here, right.

Speaker A: 00:49:42

Now, your opportunity for massive growth is right in front of you. Every episode gives you practical tips and practices that will change everything.

If you want to know more, go to kellenflukermedia.com if you want more free tools, go here. Your ultimate life ca subscribe with your.

Speaker B: 00:50:08

Heart in the sky and your feet on the ground.